I lament the challenges I see with Hollyweird productions on here quite frequently. Last year I posted up a list of my top ten favorite fantasy movies. Number 9 on that list is a movie from 1984 called Sword of the Valiant starring Sean Connery (among many others of note). The movie is the story of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight.
Today, I saw the trailer for the “Gorgeously Dark Fantasy Epic” Green Knight… about new movie about Sir Gawain and the Green knight… The trailer is available here:
This feels to me like yet another example of “Oh, that looks like it could be a cool movie but we’re going to make it really dark and moody and…”
And I’m so tired of hearing that sort of thing. It’s another Arthurian remake. Granted, it’s a lesser known one, but still a remake. I AM actually interested to see what they do with it. There’s a lot of potential in the story. I fear that it will get a treatment similar to what happened to the Hobbit, but perhaps there’s hope? Modern special effects will be fantastic for a lot of things that flatly didn’t hold up well over the years. A great deal of my love for Sword of the Valiant is nostalgic I think. I hope this new movie doesn’t over do it. The very best special effects are the ones you don’t notice. Practical effects really do look better when it’s a viable option. The trailer looks like the scenes are physically dark. I understand that could be part of the mood, but we really need to get past this aesthetic where you can’t actually see what’s happening on the screen in order to portray mood. Dark, we get it. Light the damn scene so we can see the actors at their work.
A remake. Arthurian legend. Again. I will go and see this one in the theater (probably). It’s fantasy and I want to encourage more of that. I don’t have a ton of hope, but I have a little. Let’s hope they really pull this one off.
I had commented recently on the sinking feeling I had when it was announced that a Dungeons & Dragons movie was in the works. It makes sense as the traditional swords and sorcery genre seems to be on the rise, but is filled with potential pitfalls.
Recently I read reports (here and here) that a Dungeons & Dragons television series is in development.
Spell effects will be a challenge
I had a moment when I thought, “Lord, here we go. The market is going to get a glut of embarrassing fantasy stuff…”. Then that moment passed. The longer I thought about it, the more I believe that a television series could be the best possible answer for Dungeons & Dragons. If it’s done well it can have significant staying power and inspire a whole new set of folks. This might work…
Pro-
Fantasy television has had success. I will point to what seem like disparate shows but I think both Xena and Game Of Thrones show that serialized fantasy can work and have staying power. GOT is clearly the more up to date example here, but it had certain advantages that Xena didn’t get – and Xena got SIX season. Yes, that’s enough to go into syndication. It was also contemporary with Hercules. That was the 90s. In the 2000s we got two seasons of Legend of the Seeker. Fantasy as TV can work.
The upside arguments here are many. A series gives characters time to develop and plots time to unwind. You can have individual episodes along with longer, over arching stories. The episodic nature lends itself entirely to the D&D format. Each season could be considered a campaign. Actors, settings and even entire worlds could change between seasons. There are absolutely VAST options here. YouTube has shown that there is a sustainable audience for this too.
Con-
The downside or potential negatives are equal in number and variation. Going “cheap” on this will not help. Cardboard swords and rubber monster masks slapped on extras are going to be a tough sell in the land of 4K sets. Locations will shine through. Movies can spend more on this and have a limited time they will be in place, so picking the right place matters. The wilds of New Zeland or a city in Spain that’s hundreds of years old are clear and obvious ‘characters’ in the movies they’re in as much as any on screen actor. Locations like that cost $ and a new series might not have that kind of backing. Special effects is going to be another hazard. Go cheap there and you will fail. Get too deep and your budget and schedule will fail. Spells are a major part of D&D and must be part of the show. If they are done poorly it will hurt any chance of the show living on.
Landing Spot-
This will also be a major factor in how this potential show comes off. Will it be network or streaming? IF it’s streaming, will it be a major player or “off brand” looking for success to build on? Network shows will have a different, broader audience potential but will be strictly limited by what can and cannot be shown on said networks. They will be cut down and sliced up in a different way to allow for commercials. This changes how the story is told. A streaming service will hit a more niche audience directly, but it’s just that – niche. You’ve intentionally capped your number by subscriber base. You’ve given a lot of options for what the story can do that can’t be shown on a network though, and that might help draw people that might not otherwise “tune in”.
The story itself ~
The most important success factor for any movie or show is the story and the people that populate it. IF you have a story about people you don’t care for or about, the show will die. IF you have a set of people you care about and they don’t DO anything but sit around and have anxiety and bad relationships with each other, you’ll have an art house film and that will die too.
A lot of this comes down to expectations. The writer they have talked about gives me some hope. A good writer matters. A film or television series needs to set a reasonable bar to attempt to hurdle. IF the show comes off the starting line thinking it’s going to become GOT and doesn’t immediately reach that kind of “buzz” or viewership, it’s likely to get dumped. If it doesn’t aim for that level of quality, it will never garner any attention (other than perhaps from places like RiffTraxx). It’s an incredibly challenging mark to hit.
My suggestions ~
First, having a writer doesn’t say if it’s an original script or if it’s an adaptation of something. I’d say an original script could give the best chance at success here. Something that people can create a new fandom of their own with. Original might just be the best chance.
Second, IF the stories will be adaptations, there are some specifics to stay away from. Despite the immense popularity among players, stay away from Drizzt and the Underdark. It would make gamers happy but anyone unfamiliar with the background or game at all will instantly file this under “Witcher knock-off”. Stay away from Dragonlance. I know, longest running, super popular, etc. BUT the dragons would feel like they were reaching for GOT territory, the special effects would be a major hurdle AND they’re in a lawsuit right now. Not a great combo. I would also stay away from anything related to Conan. It’s a favorite, but the pulpy nature of it combined with it’s age doesn’t feel like the right fit for the modern political era.
Lastly, stay away from using DUNGEONS & DRAGONS as the sole title. Give it a different title first and let D&D be in the second line or description or tags or something. Calling it just or only “Dungeons & Dragons” implies that this will cover any and all adaptations that go with the game. It’s one aspect (of the many) that I really hated about the movie they did all those years ago. One title and they killed it for how long? Follow the pattern that adventure series inside the game follow and give it an interesting hook followed by “A Dungeons & Dragons Series” or something like that.
There is a much greater chance of upside with a television show. I still have that anxious feeling, but it is moderated. I am eager for some quality sword and sorcery that I can watch. I really hope they manage to pull off something wonderful.
I have written in the past questioning the “we won” thought process of geekdom taking over the world. I am happy that there are so many geeky things in the world now. I love that so many things have cropped up and made their way to the public eye. Seeing so many things creates this feedback loop wherein I start to wonder if I’m really seeing fandom or if what I’m seeing is a naked cashing in on something that has reached the level of ‘fad’ and will soon fade into the background again. I will say now that I work very hard at NOT being that fan. You now, the one that claims if you didn’t suffer enough or if you aren’t a fan of precisely the right thing or you haven’t been into it long enough that you’re not truly a fan. That’s a load of crap. If you took up your geeky hobby or fandom last week you’re still a fan. You don’t have to be a fan of the same things I am, nor do you have to enjoy them the same way I do.
As with anything that pushes to the forefront of popular culture, levels of quality come into question as well. Sure, I saw a full set of Dungeons & Dragons dice the other day at the dollar store. Does that make them good dice? Does that make them bad dice? I didn’t buy them ~ I have no idea what the quality is. What it does mean is that if there’s a kid out there that wants some new gaming dice and he can scrounge up a buck, he can buy some. I’m happy for that. The dice may or may not meet my quality standard, but my standard has evolved over time. I’m really digging for quality now.
I am looking for high quality when it comes to the game I hold dear and how it is represented. A while back I posted wrote a couple of pieces about sword and sorcery films. I listed the top ten, and then added to (or amended) that list when I went hunting for newer material. One film conspicuously absent from my list was the Dungeons & Dragons movie.
Yes, blue lipstick guy.
Insert heavy sigh here.
For anyone that doesn’t know about it, New Line Cinema put out a Dungeons & Dragons film back in December of 2000. I was really excited to see it. I wanted it… I was willing it to be amazing. My Jedi mind trick failed or my will was not strong enough or maybe the time just wasn’t right. I loath that movie. It’s terrible AND didn’t do much more than pile ridicule onto fans at the time. Bear in mind this was a full eight years before the MCU’s first film came out (Iron Man – 2008) and still a year before the first of the LOTR series hit theaters (Fellowship of the Ring – December 2001). This movie did every single thing I feared about putting D&D forward into the public view. Big names were in this film. Jeremy Irons won an Oscar. Seriously. I’m not a fan of Mr. Irons, but they got an Oscar winner in there. I was also not a fan of casting one of the Wayans brothers in the movie. It has nothing to do with diversity – I think there should be more of it. It has everything to do with putting a stand up comic in as comic relief and not writing *any* clever lines to help him. He was hands down the worst character in the film – and yes I’m counting blue lipstick guy. The movie was just not good. Seriously, on a $45M budget it made back less than $16M domestically. That’s a bomb. I think it speaks to the strength of the brand that they were able to get funding for another two films (and YES, the third one did drop direct to DVD). It didn’t help matters that the following year’s release of Fellowship showed what a fantasy movie could look like. LOATHE IT.
What brought all this bile up you might be thinking.
I am filled with trepidation. A big name utterly failed to help the last one. There’s a lot of interest in D&D since the Stranger Things series came out… but… it could just go so very, horribly wrong. I find myself right back where I was twenty years ago. I so very, very much want this movie to be amazing. I want it to be “Fellowship” good. I have no faith in Hollyweird. The crusty old people pulling the purse strings will mess this up somehow. I say this based on the film adaptation of Ready Player One specifically, but not exclusively. There was an entire segment of that movie that could have (and should have) revolved around the D&D part that was written into the book. It’s not like D&D is unpopular right now. Rather than use that an entirely new section was written in as a homage to some other director and a film adaptation from 40 years ago (The Shining). My only glimmer of hope is that Joe Manganiello has also been said to be attached as one of the story creators. Joe has been very public about his love of the game and the fact that he continues to play.
A lot of people claim they love, respect, adore, play Dungeons & Dragons but I don’t see it. They’re going to screw this up… again. I don’t want them to, but I fear they will. I so very, very much want this to be amazing. I’ll have to revisit this post after I see the movie. It’s scheduled to release in the US in May of 2022.
I’m almost certain we’ll be back in movie theaters by then.
10a is in reference to my top ten list of sword and sorcery movies that I posted back in (checks notes… wow, that long ago?) June. I listed sword and sorcery movies that are my favorites. I was, and am, happy with this list.
As things go on the internet, more than one person declared that I was somehow “wrong”. I’m still not sure how I can be wrong about what *my* favorites are, but there you have that. It was also pointed out that a significant number of my choices were from the 80s. By significant they meant 80%. The other two on the list were even older (50s and 60s).
Have there been NO sword and sorcery films since the 80s that are worthy?
It’s a complicated question. Being that the list is MY favorites, uh, no. Simple answer. The simple answer is not always the best answer though. It’s been something that’s rattled around in all that empty space at the back of my noggin since the question was asked. I’ve started to look for, look at, and consider other fantasy movies and have found two others that I rather enjoy. They don’t crack the top ten but I’ve found worthy sword and sorcery is out there.
Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time
Seventh Son (2014) is the story of the seventh son of a seventh son who is recruited in the battle against the queen of all evil witches and her minions. Julianne Moore plays the queen of witches, Mother Malkin. Jeff Bridges plays the professional monster hunter Master Gregory. There are a couple of small plot twists in here that I won’t give away. It’s a challenge to say more about the plot after that… it’s a little thin. It is however filled with shape shifting monsters, sword and staff fights and magical spells. The computer generated effects don’t generally get in the way of the movie. All in all, fun to watch (and up on Netflix at the time of this writing).
Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time (2010) is the story of a rogue boy taken from the streets and brought into the life of a prince by the man who becomes his father (the king). This prince must then unravel the mystery of who is behind the threat to his adopted father’s kingdom and stop the villain before he unwittingly destroys the world. There’s not a ton of magic in this movie, but the magic is central to the plot. Jake Gyllenhall plays the parkour prince really well and having Ben Kingsley as part of the cast is always a giant plus in my book. It is a movie inspired by a video game (and at one time held the world record for most expensive film in that category) but don’t let that be a knock against it. It was a well done movie that is not overwhelmingly stuck in the psuedo-European model of swords and sorcery (and available on Disney+ at the time of this post).
I’m going to continue to hunt for good sword and sorcery films. I do love that genre so. Are there any you think are worthy that I’ve completely neglected?
Like so many people I’ve spent a lot of time with YouTube (and many over streaming services) lately. Along the way I bumped into a list video. These videos are not uncommon. Most of the time I can either enjoy or ignore them. One caught my attention – the top ten sword and sorcery movies list.
This particular list made it difficult to tell if they were in a particular order or not. I chose to believe they were in random, jumble order. If they weren’t, it only made the list more challenging for me. I could only agree with a handful of them. As I thought about it I tried to assemble my own list and realized I needed to narrow down what I meant by sword and sorcery and then what my own top ten would be.
Sword and sorcery is a sub-genre of general fantasy films. They are mythic adventures involving a great deal of action and supernatural or magical entities. They can (and often do) involve romance, but it is not always the case. The story could be a world saving adventure but doesn’t have to be. It can just as easily be a single hero’s journey to achieve some goal.
That definition puts epic scale fantasy in a different category. I love the Lord of the Rings series but I would call that epic fantasy rather than sword and sorcery. I think Narnia falls into the epic category as well, though that one is also clearly a portal fantasy. It also eliminates a really wonderful movie – The 13th Warrior (1999) from contention. While it has swords and action it is very short on sorcery. There is the barest hint of prophecy at one point, but it’s really just a great adventure movie set in the time of the Vikings.
In narrowing the field I found it made the choices here much more clear. My list starts at number 10 and works up to my favorite. It’s entirely possible that this list shifts over time. I haven’t seen a lot of great sword and sorcery coming out recently, but there’s always the chance that something new will jump in here too. The list:
#10 The Sword and the Sorcerer (1982) This is a pure nostalgia pick. The story of a mercenary with a triple bladed sword who is recruited to help stop a tyrant and his sorcerer, this was the very first R rated movie I ever went to the theater to see. It’s a bit dark at times, a bit cringy at times, and I don’t think it holds up well, but it makes the list.
#9 Sword of the Valiant (1984) This movie does not get the credit it deserves. Sean Connery, John Rhys-Davies, Ronald Lacey and Peter Cushing are all in this movie. I’m genuinely shocked more people are not on board with it. The story is of Sir Gawain accepting the challenge of the the Green Knight and the journey he takes to meet that challenge. I am actually looking to pick this one up on DVD to add to the collection. It shocked me that I don’t already have it.
#8 The Beastmaster (1982) I went back and rewatched this one recently. The story of a warrior who could communicate with animals – an ability that those in power tried to eliminate from the world. He and his animal companions set out to track down his father’s killer and take revenge. There are a lot of parts that are very cringe worthy given today’s view of things. I still put this one in the top ten.
#7 Willow (1988) This movie is just a lot of fun. It is the heart of what I think a sword and sorcery film can be. A villager who would be a wizard sets off on a quest to return a lost child ends up protecting her from an evil queen. This wizrad is joined by the great warrior Mad Mardigan – a masterful swordsman with a delightful mercenary streak. I really enjoy this one.
#6 Excalibur (1981) A wonderful film version of the Arthurian legend. It’s soooo shiny! The sword work is all over the place and Merlin is just as nutty and dangerous as you would imagine. One of my favorite versions of this tale.
#5 Jason and the Argonauts (1963) My only real inclusion of the Greek mythos in this list. I clearly remember watching this one on Saturday afternoon television as a kid. The story telling is solid and the special effects are from the one and only Ray Harryhausen. Stop motion battles at an amazing level. Harpys, skeletons, a hydra… just fantastic stuff that is still watchable today.
#4 The 7th Voyage of Sinbad (1958) Everything I said for the previous entry applies here as well. The fantasy aspects combined with pirates racing to save a princess from a sorcerer who has holed up on an island filled with monsters. Just as with Jason – still totally watchable all these years later. Harryhausen’s stop motion is magic.
#3 Legend (1985) I love the visuals of this movie. I love the soundtrack(s) from this movie. I love the villain in this movie SO much. Legend is the story of a young man who must stop the Lord of Darkness from destroying the last unicorns and ending daylight forever. It is a legend.
#2 Ladyhawke (1985) Significantly more romance than most of my top picks, this is the story of a thief who is rescued by a warrior after escaping from a dungeon. The thief becomes involved with the warrior and his plan to destroy the bishop in the city the thief just escaped from. IF the bishop can not be faced, the warrior will lose his love forever. Some anachronistic parts, but still great sword and sorcery.
#1 Conan the Barbarian (1982) Conan must take the top spot here. The Arnold Schwarzenegger portrayal of Robert E. Howard’s iconic hero is hands down my favorite. It has everything. War, cultists, magic, partying, stealing and vengeance. It is violent and grim. It had one of the first villains that gave me something to measure other villains against. When James Earl Jones plays the cult leader Thulsa Doom and says, “now they will know why they fear the night…” it gives you shivers.
That’s the list. My top ten. Do you agree? Is the order all wrong? Are there any that are missing?
I’ve been a fantasy fan for a long
time, but I haven’t played video games since the days of Atari. When
the Netflix series “The Witcher” was announced I had no
idea what was headed to the screen. While a long time fan of fantasy
I’ve drifted away recently and read in many other genres. I still
love it, but missed anything related to this series. I started
watching the show with a blank slate, just really hoping for some
excellent, accessible fantasy.
Before I get to the spoilers I will say that I did in fact like the series. I can’t say that I loved it, but it is swords and sorcery and that usually works out well for me. If you’re a fan of swords and sorcery it’s worth watching. There is a book series. I thought I would go and grab up the books, then I read this review. Perhaps I’ll hold off. Maybe it’s better to let the show stand on its own.
SPOILERS BEYOND THIS POINT
Why didn’t we get more of *this* Witcher?
Yes, it’s swords and sorcery. It’s got
a ton of standard fantasy tropes in there. Eleves, dwarves, wizards,
and even dragons. There are castles and wizard battles and swamp
monsters and ghouls and…
and all those things are rammed in and
around the plot in just 8 episodes.
The problem with epic fantasy is rarely
the fantasy part. The problem is the epic part. There
is SO much world building and background that it’s almost impossible
to cram it all in to anything less than a massive series. The writers
tend to do exactly what I said ~ they cram. The push and mash and
squeeze as many of the eye catching ‘cool’ fantasy things into as
short a span as they can in a desperate grab for eyeball time. The
Witcher suffers from this. There is so much there and very, very
little of it is actually the main character doing his job. Geralt is
a magically created warrior designed to hunt and destroy monsters.
The series opens with him battling a swamp dwelling giant spider with
human features, then shows his fighting powers against people, then
that fades away in order to start stacking in story.
As I wrote that I had to stop and
really think about it. How could I complain about building in story?
It’s exactly what I always say that I want. That is the part about
cramming in the ‘epic’ part. The story is named for Geralt’s job, but
then we spend huge amounts of time on Ciri, Yennifer, Jasker the
bard, The Brotherhood (that is mostly women?) and a jumble of other
bits. We see Geralt’s part in things, but only just.
Witchers are supposed to be constructed
to have no human emotions. I suspect this is not the truth and much
like the manner in which Spock is portrayed in the modern updates of
the Star Trek series the character is deeply emotional, simply
repressed to the point of psychological damage. I believe the
emotions will burst forth in the form of rage at some point. A truly
emotionless character would be far less interesting. What this
emotionless warrior does is drift through the story. I want to like
Geralt, but he’s flat. On purpose? Maybe.
So a flat character and a jumble of
story. At least the whole thing will make sense when it’s fully
rendered on screen, right? Wrong.
The time line jumps all over the place.
I could never tell when in the story we were supposed to be. Were we
in the past, the distant past, the present? It was almost impossible
to tell for sure. Flashbacks to dead characters that have been
replaced by magic shape shifters only made this worse. Apparently
both the sorceress Yennifer and Geralt are supposed to be
significantly older? Sorcerers are supposed to have greatly expanded
life spans, but we’re only getting vague references to that? It was
very frustrating.
The other part I found frustrating was
the indecision of what the nature of the show wanted to be. Getting
past organizational aspects of how the story was made, what were they
trying to portray? There were tons of gratuitous nudity scenes.
Generally speaking I am in favor of that sort of thing – if it
advances the story in some way. These scenes all gave me the feeling
that what they were aiming for was trying to take over the space
vacated by Game of Thrones. The show wanted to be dark, and
mysterious, violent and sexy… and then they added in Jasker the
bard. Jasker should have been Joxer from Xena: Warrior Princess.
They could have gone for a much lighter, entertaining version of the
entire series. There were still monsters and fighting and love
stories just with added camp.
I don’t know if I would stay on board
for campy epic fantasy and that’s the show’s biggest issue. It can’t
decide what it wants to be or where it wants to go. It’s a retro feel
stuffed in a modern package that doesn’t quite fit.
There are other issues associated with
the show as well. Yennifer as hunchback and deformed never sat quite
right with me. Something was off about that portrayal. When she was
transformed it confirmed my fear. This was actually a gorgeous
Hollyweird actress that they’d made up to look that particular way,
then magically transformed. I do not fall into any category other
than ‘able’ so it’s not for me to discuss the depth of this, but
despite truly excellent make-up and special effects it just didn’t
sit right.
For more depth on this you should check out this article.
I’ve spent quite a few words picking
this show apart. These issues are what distract me from flat out
loving a successful fantasy series. There are really excellent parts
to this show and good stories within the larger story. The series has
been announced as having a second season already. My hope is that the
story lines get sorted in better order, the actual power of Geralt
comes forward (there was a lot of hype around the black eyes in the
promo stuff and we almost never see that in the series) and the
writers decide to make this story it’s own, not just a GOT
replacement.
I do recommend watching the series. As
always, supporting something new is vital to showing that we, the
consumer, are actually interested in new and exciting shows and that
we want something more than another remake.
